In the fifth interview session, conducted on June 10, 1993, DeBernardis continues discussing his service as Portland Community College’s first president. He continues describing the mission of Portland Community College and revisits the topics of PCC’s hiring practices and his major accomplishments during his presidency. He also discusses his failures and conflicts. He talks about his relationships with presidents at other community colleges in Oregon, budgeting concerns for a college, and PCC’s relationship with Oregon 4-year colleges. He then speaks about his retirement activities and reflects on the challenges of leading a college. He also shares his philosophy on life.